INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PAPER HISTORIANS
Questions &
Answers
Archive #4
[2006-2011]
10 September 2011
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I saw Mr Pollets VDL watermark
#1 question on your website regarding his maps in (question received: 03/09/2011) |
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VDL watermark #2 question It is possible to identify the right period
of the Van der Ley watermarks of which I do attach a
couple of them found in the same paper (where a nice piece of the Giudizio
Universale from Michelangelo was engraved)? (question
received: 10/07/2011) |
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VDL watermark #1 question: watermark in nautical documents in We are Chilean researchers
from the Instituto de Arqueología Náutica y Subacuática, On the another hand, we
have some more documents that contain French watermarks, possibly well dated;
nevertheless we know by our readings that there might be a time difference
between the purchase of the paper in that time, and its effective use. We
could read that the very average of this period was around 5 years maximum
and never more than 15 years. Does anybody have some recent information about
the current hypothesis and investigations on this matter? Hoping we put your
attention on this matter. With our kind regards, Christophe Pollet Investigador Científico Titular (question received: 09/06/2011) Dear Albert, (reply received: 16/06/2011) |
Who's
got additional answers to this question? The
VDL stands for Van der Ley, a papermaking producer from the Zaanstreek,
located above Please
don not expect to much from watermarks for dating your maps; indeed paper was
often used several years after production and the dates given in the
handbooks are the dates found on official documents in archives, not
production dates. Moreover: the chance that you will find an identical
watermark, from the same paper mill and the same time, is very, very little. Your
hyperlink does not work, by the way. It gives a notification: Temporary file open error. Display failed. Hopefully,
others will send more info. Albert
Elen (answer received: 15/06/2011) |
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Dating paper
used by the artist Henneberg around 1918 I'm working on a bequest of prints made by the Austrian artist Hugo
Henneberg who died in 1918 and was best known for his photographs. A newly
found volume of apparently hand printed color woodcuts - each one of a kind -
raises new questions about the art production of Henneberg also regarding his
collaboration with other artist such as Carl Moll. The prints in question could be considered as proof prints (they are
not signed and the papers trimmed to the edge of the block) but it
would be very useful to know whether they could have been printed by the
artist himself or probably only after his death. Three sorts of papers were
used as seen in the transmitted light photos. One very thin which shows both
chain and laid wires (sample1). One a bit thicker that shows only chain wires
and no laid wires are detectable (sample2). And one even thicker that shows
no wires at all but a very characteristic profile on the verso side
(sample3). (See pics) The question is whether one of those papers could have
only been produced a f t e r 1918 or whether all could have been
used by Henneberg himself (thus before 1918) or whether one is especially
characteristic for the time between 1900 and 1920. Herwig Tachezi from (question received 24/05/2011) watermark images
attached in pdf-file (click to download) |
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got the answer to this question? |
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Identification of watermarks I have been working on a
condition report of a 16th century watercolor album and found some leaves
have clear watermarks. I am sending you the images of them. Unfortunately
I am not an expert on identifying watermarks so I would like to get your
advice on the subject. I don't know where the sheets were made but hope
that the watermarks will provide some information about it. Would it be possible for your
to advise me on this subject? If not could you please let me know whom
I need to contact? Many thanks for your kind help in
advance. I am looking forward to hearing from you in the near future. Thank you, Best regards, Hyejung Yum (Question
received 26/04/2011) watermark images attached in
pdf-file (click to download) |
Dear Hyejung, Two of the watermarks (#1 and #4) in your pdf-file
are crossbow watermarks, one (#3) is an anchor in a circle surmounted by
three leaves, another (#2) is difficult to discern, something surmounted by a
trefoil, the last is a man walking holding a stick over his shoulders,
enclosed in a circle (#5) apparently found in a marbled paper endleaf,
probably 18th-c.. or later. I do not have the standard watermark
reference books ready to hand, but you can check yourself in a research
library, f.i. in a museum or a large library: C.M. Briquet’s Filigranes or Piccard’s Wasserzeichenkartei Stuttgart will
probably yield similar watermarks of these types. By the way, watercolours in
the sixteenth century is an anachronism, the proper denomination is ‘coloured
drawings”. And: is it an album, a drawing-book or a convolute? And who is the
artist, from which country (Italian perhaps?) and what is the nature of the
drawings? Sincerely, Albert Elen (Answer received 18/05/2011) |
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Identification of a watermark type bell with
initial HP Cher
Monsieur, chère Madame, (question received 19/04/2011) |
To Matéo Crémades : Je ne connais pas le papier que
vous décrivez, mais
(answer received: 22/04/2011 |
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The Radford Family and
papermaking in Kent, UK John Noel Balston writes about the Radford Family and papermaking in I would very much appreciate reading his full commentary and
analysis about the Radfords, along with any references. Thank you. Richard Alan Nelson Professor, (question
received 26/06/2010) |
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got the answer to this question?
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I am currently researching the mathematics of Vincent Van Gogh’s artwork
and have a question of the paper he may have used. His personal letters site
his use of Whatman paper. I have also found an article from a professional
journal that makes the following statement without a resource: “The
Whatman paper that he [Van Gogh] most liked to use is either in full-sized
sheets, approximately 48 x My question: Can anyone verity that a “full-sized sheet” of Whatman
paper in the late 1800s would be of dimension 48 x My follow-up question: Van Gogh also references Harding paper and
“papeir de la Forme”. What would the dimension of a full size of these brands
had been during the same time period? Any other information of paper size during this time period would be
helpful. Thank you, Pete Anderson (question received 12/04/2010) |
To Pete Anderson (question dated 12.04.2010) :
"Papier à la forme" (answer received: 22/04/2011 We have worked with paintings by
George Stow, a 19th century geologist and rock art copyist in Best wishes Thomas Cartwright (answer received 05/06/2010) |
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Holy
Michael with sword and scales, Dear friends! I am working with a medical manuscript, written in german, found in You
have seen these watermarks? You know something about the papermill? Please
send me an information, thank you With
kind regards, (question received 12/04/2010)
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Van Gelder Zonen watermark identification Hi,my name is Lisa Duncan and I am a paper and photograph conservator
in the Question: Lisa Duncan (question received
05/04/2009)
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I found on the IPH-website, on the page
"Questions and Answers", some questions about watermarks/paper of
Van Gelder Papier. Before I give answer to the questions at the very bottom
of this e-mail, first some history about myself. First of all: I am a member of the IPH. I attended
already the first IPH symposium in When I was 13 years old I had already a
complete outfit for making paper by hand, incl. a small Hollander beater
etc., and printed my own etches on that paper. It was just my great
hobby and by that time I also started collecting and reading
literature which had to do with the history of paper. I was born in 1944 and grew up on the
premises of the Van Gelder Zonen mill in Velsen, where my father was an
employee till 1970. When I became 18 years I started working in four
shifts at the newsprint papermachine PM In 1970 I became a Product Manager at Van Gelder
Papier and was mainly dealing with the products from the mills in Wormer and I left Van Gelder Papier in 1976 and started my own
company, printing heat transfer paper. It was first in Westzaan for 3 years,
after 2 years in Wormerveer, and then I moved in 1980 with the company
to Melick-Herkenbosch (close to Roermond), sold the company to Hunter-Douglas
in 1991, when it had 50 employees, and started in In 1970/71 I was also involved in setting up a
marketing plan for the Van Gelder Zonen plant in -Three fourdriniers. Two for producing woodfree
uncoated printing and writing and one for woodfree online coated
paper; -Two mould machines (dutch: rondzeefmachines): PM 3
and PM 13; The two mould machines were from the very begin
of the 20th century, and had replaced paper making by hand in By the time that I was dealing with the products
of these machines, On PM 13 was made white and coloured board (>
180 gr/m2). On PM 3 were made still the socalled oudhollandse papieren,
so mainly paper with watermarks. The two watermarks which are shown in the
Email of Mrs. Duncan are from paper produced either on PM 3 or PM 13.
From the begin of the 20th century on, these were the only Van Gelder
machines for paper with watermarks. I still have some of the sample books of
paper from PM 3, which I produced in the early seventies in my
possession. And that's why I can give pretty accurate info to the questions. Please find attached a scan of the relevant
pages. Scan # 1 shows you the cover of the sample book printed on Zaans
Bord of the Schoolmeester in Westzaan. (By that time I was managing (finance,
production, marketing and organization) the Schoolmeester as
well). Finally the answer to the questions: The two watermarks are from the quality Oxhead,
production code 81.023. It was sold in sheets of 40 x 52., 110 gr/m2,
the 52 cms edge parallel to the machine direction and to the
vergure wires at a distance of 4 cms.In the attachment # 8 of the Email
you can see that the oxhead (watermark # 3) was placed in the left upper
corner of the sheet and the name Van Gelder Zonen (watermark #
10) at the right bottom of the sheet, parallel to the Met
vriendelijke groeten,
In re: Lisa Duncan’s query of 05/04/2009 I too am
looking for more information about Van Gelder Zonen paper. I am a book
conservator, and I am examining a book printed on Van Gelder Zonen paper,
which has the same watermarks shown in Ms. Duncan’s photos. The book is
printed on folios measuring 39.8 x This
book is peculiar because it has been printed and bound ‘wrong grain,’ that
is, with the grain running perpendicular to the spine. Ms. Duncan’s
sample appears to be printed in the same fashion. I wonder if this was
a paper intended and designed to be printed and bound as quartos, which my
book’s designer, and apparently Ansel Adams too, ignored and chose to use as
folios. The book
I have was produced in Any
information about this paper, and its apparent international popularity at
the time, would be greatly appreciated. Many
thanks, Anne Marigza Conservator, Books and Documents
(Answer
received 14/04/2010) Who's got the answer to their questions? |
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I am looking to indentify the manufacture of this watermarks.
Early 20th century, white laid paper. Rachel
Mustalish (question received 31/01/2010)
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this question?
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Hello, I came across your site while trying to figure out
where this paper is from and how old it may be. I am curious as to what this
watermark is and where it is from. My friend purchased this picture at an
estate sale.vIt looks to be quite old and has a other stamp in the right hand
corner. Any information you may have would be very helpful. I looked around
the internet and I was unable to find anything close to this water mark.
There is a name written on the back of the picture but I am unable to make it
out. Could this paper be German or Dutch? If you need any other pictures
please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you for your time and energy. Sincerely, Gregory Sullivan (question received
11/01/2010) |
Dear mr. Sullivan, your watermark is of the Fortuna type, which is
relatively rare and found in archival documents of around 1810-15 (cf.
Churchill 193; Voorn, De papiermolens
in de provincie Noord-Holland, 1960, p 141 no 193, ill p 224 and cover
ill.). It was probably produced in the Zaanstreek area above With kind regards,
(reply
received 11/01/2009) |
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I am researching for a book
about the Chromolithographic edition of Audubon's birds of Joel Oppenheimer, President (question
received 20/12/2009) |
Dear Joel Oppenheimer,
you have many questions
and they are not easy to answer. To establish the content of wood pulp/rags
one needs a sample of the paper from the edition to be analyzed and to
find the provenance of the paper is even more complicated. I will send
your question to the web-site of IPH.
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I am
working with a 18th century manuscript from With
kind regards, L.Quetin (question
received 10/11/2009) |
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Dear Sirs and Madams, (question received 30/09/2009) |
Dear
Charlotte,
Judging
from the dimensions your book is not small at all. Are they the dimensions of
the bookblock (i.e. a single page) or the openings (i.e. two opposite pages)?
Are you sure it is a manuscript and not a printed book, or even a facsimile?
It would help when you send reduced jpeg images of the opened book and the
watermark.
Albert
Elen
(answer received 22/10/2009) --------------------------------------
Dear
Charlotte,
Your
description indicates that it is laid paper, papier vélin, but it does not
correspond with the year, written in the book. The first book that was
printed on paper from a woven mould was John Baskerville's book Publii
Virgilii Maronis Bucolica, Georgica, et Aeneis from 1757, according to my
information.
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Perhaps someone can be of assistance. I am researching
a letter written in The " I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could
provide further information about the history of the watermark, or refer
me to any references. Thanks for any assistance. Mark (question received 07/07/2009)
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Dear Mark,
This is not a watermark
but a blind pressed (embossed) mark, which is not part of the papermaking
process.
Albert Elen,
(answer received 31/07/2009) |
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Hi, If anyone could shed some light on this watermark, it would be greatly
appreciated. The paper has a drawing on one side, 18th century I have been
told, and another drawing on verso, 17th or 16th century. Reldon Coffey (question received
20/05/2009)
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I've found a
beautiful ink drawing in which paper features a watermark that could be a Van
Gelder watermark: a female figure standing on a globe, the so called
'fortune' figure. I would like to know
how old could it be, and some information about general dating of this
watermark. Many thanks, Alessandro Querci (question received 22/06/2009) |
This does sound to me
like the Fortuna watermark. I have found it in a Malay manuscript (no. Or. 57) dated Russell Jones (answer received 31/07/2009)
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What is the difference between Steinbach sheets and
Fabriano sheets? and what is the difference between hot pressed sheets and
cold pressed sheets? Namdar (question received
11/05/2009) |
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watermark on aid paper circa 1860 I am trying to identify the manufacturer of a laid paper which was
used to print a block of nine 10 cent Jefferson Davies stamps circa 1860 to
1870. I can make out part of the watermark of the manufacturer, it starts
with a L and has 5 letters namely L-ti-. Thank you in advance Fred Rigo (question received
01/03/2009) |
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Unicorn watermarks in British paper c. 1800 Dear Sir or Madam, I understand from various publications (such as Papermaking by
Dard Hunter and others) that the Unicorn was widely used as a watermark from
the 15th to the 17th centuries inclusive. According to Hunter one person,
M.Briquet, has recorded over 1100 different renderings of this used as a
device for marking paper. But it was less used from the early 18th century
onwards. But can you please say if you are aware of any quality paper being
manufactures in England which still uses the Unicorn watermark form around,
say, the year 1800 or just before? The reason I’m interested is because the
only example I’m aware of from around that time seems to have been produced
in the Austro/Hungarian Empire. But the document in which I’m interested
appears to have been produced in Many thanks for any assistance. Robert Newman (question received
28/02/2009) |
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wove paper Hi, I am a hand made paper maker from can any one guide me in suggesting a felt which can give a smooth
finish? Sundaram Srikkanth (question received
20/02/2009) |
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Blue lined note paper I would like to know how long blue lined note paper has been
commercially available. I have well aged 140mm x 225mm loose sheets of blue
lined paper and am curious how old it could be. Thank you Roy Rantilla (question received 07/02/2009) |
Dear Roy Rantilla Thank you for your question and interest in paper production. I will
send your question to paper historians with archival knowledge about the actual
production of the paper mills, but according to my own sample of a folio
sheet of handmade paper from Lessebo in Sweden with blue lines it was common
in the 19th century. With kind regards Anna-Grethe Rischel |
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Fabriano watermark dating I am curious whether these are Fabriano watermarks of late 1500’s –
they were from the same blank book. I would be especially grateful to find
where I can contact or view a database that may confirm or show it with
relative date. Thank you Ron Bodoh (question received 02/02/2009) |
Thank you for your question about the watermark added to your mail.
There are various data bases of watermarks and there are also a number of
catalogues to check, but maybe you have already done that. I suggest that you
contact Paola Franca Munafò at Istituto centrale per la patologia With kind regards Anna-Grethe Rischel (answer received 04/02/2009) Dear colleagues The question concerning the two watermarks came up to me. Although we
are concentrated on watermarks of the middleages I looked up the repertories
available at our commission – unfortunately without results. If there’s the
opportunity they are from Fabriano perhaps it shows more promise to contact
the papermuseum there. With kind regards Maria Stieglecker (answer received 13/02/2009)
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Paper based filling system (#2) Hi Anna Thank you for your quick response. The word “a paper based filing
system” means the way a person or an organisation stores its files [paper or
electronically]. This could be in the form of a file or on the computer. We
as a team have to argue that keeping paper documents in cabinets is the right
thing to do. We have to motivate this starting from when paper was first used
stating the following: Regards Mphakamisi Mzamo Regards Mphakamisi Mzamo (question received
16/01/2009) |
Dear Mphakamisi Mzamo Thank you for more information of your questions. You have put a lot
of questions and in my opinion you will get the most precise answers from Dr.
Józef Dabrowski who is the most distinguished paper historian and specialist
in pulp and paper technology. I will forward your questions to his e-mail
address. With kind regards Anna-Grethe Rischel |
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Paper based filling system (#1) Please assist with the following question. Team A must prepare a
report giving arguments in favour of a paper based filing system. In your
debate, you must link your current change control process to the management
of your filing system. You must motivate its strengths and why this process
should not change. Convince the other team to maintain the status quo. Regards Mphakamisi Mzamo (question received
14/01/2009) |
Thank you for your question that I want to be sure
that I understand correctly before I send it to a colleague with special
knowledge in this field. Please let me know if the word “a paper based
filling system” means a pulp machine filling out tears and missing areas with
new fibres with the combination of vacuum? With kind regards Anna-Grethe Rischel |
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Watermark (question received
08/01/2009) |
Dear Robert Hendry |
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Black paper, 1847 Hello, Mrs. Rischel: Thank you so much for your prompt response. The
black paper making up the front surface of the silhouette is glued onto
cardboard similar to that which was used on old albumen photographs. The
white side of the paper is down, being the side glued to the board. Only a
tiny edge of the black paper shows the white backing so we cannot be sure
that the whole of the black paper is backed by the same very white backing,
but it is probably safe to assume that there is white backing of the black
paper. The very even, tiny mesh lines are on the face of the black paper. Due
to the gluing, I cannot tell whether the white paper has similar lines. I
should give you a bit more detail on my inquiry. A study has been made of the
black paper used by some of the early, famous, 19th century silhouettists.
That study showed that, at least the silhouettes studied, were cut from paper
made by applying a black compound onto white paper, with the chemical
structure of the compound varying from one cutter to the next. I have found
advertisements for black paper in newspapers in the early 1840s, but have not
been able to find advertisements for paper made for silhouettes, nor did the
study. The knowledge I lack is whether a less skilled silhouettists might
have been able, in 1847, to have purchased a pre-made, finely and evenly
meshed black paper with a white reverse side. The authenticity of the particular
silhouette I am inquiring about is some what in question unless a black paper
with a fine mesh surface and backed with white was likely to have been
produced in the 1840s. If a black compound over white paper was generally
used by most silhouettists to make their black paper, then the compound would
likely cover over any mesh as fine as that which appears on the surface of
our black paper; or if the black paper with a fine mesh on its surface and
backed by white was an unlikely production of the 1840s, then the paper of
this particular silhouette would appear to be an anomaly and make the 1840s
date an unlikely one. What would your opinion be? Again, thank you so much for the time you have taken on this inquiry. (reaction received 02/01/2009) |
Thank you for your question concerning black
silhouette paper. I understand on your description that only the front of the
paper is coloured with black and that you can observe a structure similar to
a woven textile on the white reverse. The structure of the reverse side of
the paper is most often the impression of the material on which the paper has
been made; in handmade paper you will therefore not find any impression of
the laid lines and the chain lines of the metal wire in the mould, if it has
been covered with a woven material as is the case in Whatman paper. In
handmade Oriental paper made with a floating mould with a fixed bottom of
woven textiles the impression of the woven structure is to be found on the
reverse of the paper, if not a heavy polishing has taken place. The structure
that you observe in the paper from 1847 could indicate that it was machine
made paper and not handmade Whatman paper and that the woven structure was
the impression from the endless woven material of the paper machine or that
it was a pattern that was pressed into the paper as an after treatment. I
know from my studies of Japanese paper from the end of the 19th century how
any structure and surface could be added to the paper to imitate embossed
leather and there are many examples of modern machinemade writing paper with
textile structure and chain lines and laid lines. I hope that my suggestions
to your question can help you and I will look for woven structure in
machinemade paper from that period. Anna-Grethe Rischel |
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Pope Reel Bonjour, (question received 21/01/2008) |
Dear colleague, |
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Pfaffenweiler Blumenmacherin Hi, my ancestor, Johanna Keifer, immigrated from Pfaffenweiler, Linda Wolff (question received
01/07/2006) |
I know Dr. Frieder Schmidt, (answer received 04/07/2006) |
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welcome! - for inclusion in this table. Please refer to the question and it's
date. If you want to remain anonymous, please indicate so
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