INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PAPER HISTORIANS
Questions & Answers
6 December 2011
This is a
service to all people interested in paper and its applications
CALL FOR ANSWERS: PLEASE SEND US
please refer to the date of the question received!
QUESTIONS WHICH REMAIN UNANSWERED FOR 6 MONTHS
WILL BE DELETED FROM THIS PAGE AND MOVED TO OUR ARCHIVE (SEE BOTTOM OF THIS
PAGE)
Please try to
find answers first by using the main search engines, like Google, Yahoo and
Altavista
and check online
watermark databases like the Gravell Watermark Archive (Search
the Database)
and check our
IPH webpage with hyperlinks to other watermark databases
Do not expect to
receive quick answers, it will probably take a few days before questions are
put on this website
and it may take
a few weeks or months before someone sends us an answer.
Questions about
watermarks: generally you may find similar types in the Watermark reference
books, check List of main watermark reference books.
IF YOU HAVE DONE
ALL THAT AND STILL WANT TO POST YOUR QUESTION
PLEASE MAKE A
WORD DOCUMENT WITH YOUR QUESTION AND IMAGES EMBEDDED IN IT,
CONVERT THIS
WORD DOCUMENT TO A PDF-FILE USING http://www.freepdfconvert.com/
AND THEN SEND US
THE PDF-FILE ALONG WITH YOUR E-MAIL + QUESTION
WE DO NOT POST
JPEG OR TIF IMAGES ANYMORE
Questions
|
Answers
and Reactions
|
|||||||||||||
|
You can have your question put right here, |
Please send us your questions & answers and
further information - more than one answer is most welcome! - for inclusion
in this table. Please refer to the question and it's date. If you want to
remain anonymous, please indicate so |
|||||||||||||
|
Who’s next? |
|
|||||||||||||
|
Unicorn
Watermark I am trying to
identify a specific unicorn watermark (pdf attached).
It’s pretty similar to many late 16th-century watermarks as cited
eg. in the Gravell Watermark archive. But I wonder if anyone has come across
this particular example. It’s on a sheet of paper with a small piece of text
which I think may have been written by William Lambarde. I’ll be going to look
at other material to check out the watermarks, but as watermarks are a
completely new field for me I don’t want to reinvent the wheel. In case this
is something immediately obvious
to specialists in the field I thought I’d post this here first. Joy Jenkyns (question
received 04/12/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Watermarks in Malay manuscripts Can anyone identify these two
fragments of watermarks (see pdf file), which are
probably early eighteenth century? They are in Malay manuscripts (Dd.5.37 (1)
and Gg.6.40 (2)) in Cambridge University Library. Russell Jones (question received: 29/09/2011) |
#2
Dear Albert, Yes, that is it! I should have known, I had recorded the upper part
separately (image
attached) and identified that with Churchill no. 266, (his drawing
is not so clear) ‘1623 Arms of Kind regards, Russell 27
October 2011 #2
Dear Russell, The second watermark is of the type Arms of Albert Elen (answer received: 26.10.2011)
#1 Dear Russell, Judging from the photographs these are resp. the upper part and the lower
part of different watermarks found in the centre of pages in a quarto
gathering. The other half of each watermark is then found in the
corresponding page, part of the same bifolio, elsewhere in the gathering,
which you may find when first locating the binding thread at the middle
bifolio of the gathering and then counting down to the left and to the right.
The first watermark I do not recognize, but leafing through Heawood or
Churchill, which I do not have ready to hand at home, may yield results. The
second watermark is a (probably crowned) coat of arms, with rampant lions
symmetrically placed in two of five quarters, with a small centre shield,
which may all be identified when doing some heraldic research. The animal
below the crest may refer to the Order of the Golden Fleece. I hope this may help you in your further research. Albert Elen (answer received: 29.09.2011) Who's
got additional answers to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Watermarks in Old Master drawings by German artists I am writing to ask
for the help of the IPH community in the identification of five watermarks (5 mb pdf-file) which are found in
early German drawings in the collection of the Thank you. Sincerely, Szilvia Bodnár (question received: 21/11/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Watermark and countermarks "D
& R" "1804" "Britania" device. Can anyone tell me the mill this watermark+countermark was made in? More photos can be seen on my web
site (along with other watermarks) http://www.whimsie.com/papers%20antique%20handmade%20european.html It is shown toward the bottom of
the page. Thank you, Ron Bodoh (question received: 21/11/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
MARIANO watermark Can anyone help identify this watermark? Examples have been found in Opposite is an ornate M.
Any help will be appreciated. Rick Hendricks, Ph.D. State Historian Office of the State
Historian 1205 Camino Carlos Rey (question received: 10/11/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Storage of paper documents during travels at sea Long ago
I learned that during a sea voyage paper was sometimes/usually packed into
watertight barrels, which would offer good protection against the damp. I
cannot trace my source for this. Do you happen to know anything about the way
paper was protected on its voyages to the east? With
kind regards, Russell
Jones (question
received: 27/09/11) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
I saw Mr Pollets VDL watermark
#1 question on your website regarding his maps in (question received: 03/09/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
VDL watermark #2 question It is possible to identify the right period
of the Van der Ley watermarks of which I do attach a
couple of them found in the same paper (where a nice piece of the Giudizio
Universale from Michelangelo was engraved)? Roberto Bonfanti (from (question received: 10/07/2011) |
Who's
got an answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
VDL watermark #1 question: watermark in nautical documents in We are Chilean researchers
from the Instituto de Arqueología Náutica y Subacuática, On the another hand, we
have some more documents that contain French watermarks, possibly well dated;
nevertheless we know by our readings that there might be a time difference
between the purchase of the paper in that time, and its effective use. We
could read that the very average of this period was around 5 years maximum
and never more than 15 years. Does anybody have some recent information about
the current hypothesis and investigations on this matter? Hoping we put your
attention on this matter. With our kind regards, Christophe Pollet Investigador Científico Titular (question received: 09/06/2011) Dear Albert, (reply received: 16/06/2011) |
Who's
got additional answers to this question? The
VDL stands for Van der Ley, a papermaking producer from the Zaanstreek,
located above Please
don not expect to much from watermarks for dating your maps; indeed paper was
often used several years after production and the dates given in the
handbooks are the dates found on official documents in archives, not
production dates. Moreover: the chance that you will find an identical
watermark, from the same paper mill and the same time, is very, very little. Your
hyperlink does not work, by the way. It gives a notification: Temporary file open error. Display failed. Hopefully,
others will send more info. Albert
Elen (answer received: 15/06/2011) |
|||||||||||||
|
Dating paper
used by the artist Henneberg around 1918 I'm working on a bequest of prints made by the Austrian artist Hugo
Henneberg who died in 1918 and was best known for his photographs. A newly found
volume of apparently hand printed color woodcuts - each one of a kind -
raises new questions about the art production of Henneberg also regarding his
collaboration with other artist such as Carl Moll. The prints in question could be considered as proof prints (they are
not signed and the papers trimmed to the edge of the block) but it
would be very useful to know whether they could have been printed by the
artist himself or probably only after his death. Three sorts of papers were
used as seen in the transmitted light photos. One very thin which shows both
chain and laid wires (sample1). One a bit thicker that shows only chain wires
and no laid wires are detectable (sample2). And one even thicker that shows
no wires at all but a very characteristic profile on the verso side
(sample3). (See pics) The question is whether one of those papers could have
only been produced a f t e r 1918 or whether all could have been
used by Henneberg himself (thus before 1918) or whether one is especially characteristic
for the time between 1900 and 1920. Herwig Tachezi from (question received 24/05/2011) watermark images
attached in pdf-file (click to download) |
Who's
got the answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Identification of watermarks I have been working on a
condition report of a 16th century watercolor album and found some leaves
have clear watermarks. I am sending you the images of
them. Unfortunately I am not an expert on identifying watermarks so I
would like to get your advice on the subject. I don't know where the
sheets were made but hope that the watermarks will provide some information
about it. Would it be possible for your
to advise me on this subject? If not could you please let me know whom
I need to contact? Many thanks for your kind help in
advance. I am looking forward to hearing from you in the near future. Thank you, Best regards, Hyejung Yum (Question
received 26/04/2011) watermark images attached in
pdf-file (click to download) |
Dear Hyejung, Two of the watermarks (#1 and #4) in your pdf-file
are crossbow watermarks, one (#3) is an anchor in a circle surmounted by three
leaves, another (#2) is difficult to discern, something surmounted by a
trefoil, the last is a man walking holding a stick over his shoulders,
enclosed in a circle (#5) apparently found in a marbled paper endleaf,
probably 18th-c.. or later. I do not have the standard watermark
reference books ready to hand, but you can check yourself in a research
library, f.i. in a museum or a large library: C.M. Briquet’s Filigranes or Piccard’s Wasserzeichenkartei Stuttgart will
probably yield similar watermarks of these types. By the way, watercolours in
the sixteenth century is an anachronism, the proper denomination is ‘coloured
drawings”. And: is it an album, a drawing-book or a convolute? And who is the
artist, from which country (Italian perhaps?) and what is the nature of the
drawings? Sincerely, Albert Elen (Answer received 18/05/2011) |
|||||||||||||
|
Identification of a watermark type bell with
initial HP Cher
Monsieur, chère Madame, (question received 19/04/2011) |
To Matéo Crémades : Je ne connais pas le papier que
vous décrivez, mais
(answer received: 22/04/2011 |
|||||||||||||
|
The Radford Family and
papermaking in Kent, UK John Noel Balston writes about the Radford Family and papermaking in I would very much appreciate reading his full commentary and
analysis about the Radfords, along with any references. Thank you. Richard Alan Nelson Professor, (question
received 26/06/2010) |
Who's
got the answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
I am currently researching the mathematics of Vincent Van Gogh’s
artwork and have a question of the paper he may have used. His personal
letters site his use of Whatman paper. I have also found an article from a
professional journal that makes the following statement without a resource: “The
Whatman paper that he [Van Gogh] most liked to use is either in full-sized
sheets, approximately 48 x My question: Can anyone verity that a “full-sized sheet” of Whatman
paper in the late 1800s would be of dimension 48 x My follow-up question: Van Gogh also references Harding paper and
“papeir de la Forme”. What would the dimension of a full size of these brands
had been during the same time period? Any other information of paper size during this time period would be
helpful. Thank you, Pete Anderson (question received 12/04/2010) |
To Pete Anderson (question dated 12.04.2010) :
"Papier à la forme" (answer received: 22/04/2011 We have worked with paintings by
George Stow, a 19th century geologist and rock art copyist in Best wishes Thomas Cartwright (answer received 05/06/2010) |
|||||||||||||
|
Holy
Michael with sword and scales, Dear friends! I am working with a medical manuscript, written in german, found in You
have seen these watermarks? You know something about the papermill? Please
send me an information, thank you With
kind regards, (question received 12/04/2010)
|
Who's
got the answer to this question? |
|||||||||||||
|
Van Gelder Zonen watermark identification Hi,my name is Lisa Duncan and I am a paper and photograph conservator
in the Question: Lisa Duncan (question received
05/04/2009)
|
I found on the IPH-website, on the page
"Questions and Answers", some questions about watermarks/paper of
Van Gelder Papier. Before I give answer to the questions at the very bottom
of this e-mail, first some history about myself. First of all: I am a member of the IPH. I attended
already the first IPH symposium in When I was 13 years old I had already a
complete outfit for making paper by hand, incl. a small Hollander beater
etc., and printed my own etches on that paper. It was just my great
hobby and by that time I also started collecting and reading
literature which had to do with the history of paper. I was born in 1944 and grew up on the
premises of the Van Gelder Zonen mill in Velsen, where my father was an
employee till 1970. When I became 18 years I started working in four
shifts at the newsprint papermachine PM In 1970 I became a Product Manager at Van Gelder
Papier and was mainly dealing with the products from the mills in Wormer and I left Van Gelder Papier in 1976 and started my own
company, printing heat transfer paper. It was first in Westzaan for 3 years,
after 2 years in Wormerveer, and then I moved in 1980 with the company
to Melick-Herkenbosch (close to Roermond), sold the company to Hunter-Douglas
in 1991, when it had 50 employees, and started in In 1970/71 I was also involved in setting up a
marketing plan for the Van Gelder Zonen plant in -Three fourdriniers. Two for producing woodfree
uncoated printing and writing and one for woodfree online coated
paper; -Two mould machines (dutch: rondzeefmachines): PM 3
and PM 13; The two mould machines were from the very begin
of the 20th century, and had replaced paper making by hand in By the time that I was dealing with the products
of these machines, On PM 13 was made white and coloured board (>
180 gr/m2). On PM 3 were made still the socalled oudhollandse papieren,
so mainly paper with watermarks. The two watermarks which are shown in the
Email of Mrs. Duncan are from paper produced either on PM 3 or PM 13.
From the begin of the 20th century on, these were the only Van Gelder
machines for paper with watermarks. I still have some of the sample books of
paper from PM 3, which I produced in the early seventies in my
possession. And that's why I can give pretty accurate info to the questions. Please find attached a scan of the relevant
pages. Scan # 1 shows you the cover of the sample book printed on Zaans
Bord of the Schoolmeester in Westzaan. (By that time I was managing (finance,
production, marketing and organization) the Schoolmeester as
well). Finally the answer to the questions: The two watermarks are from the quality Oxhead,
production code 81.023. It was sold in sheets of 40 x 52., 110 gr/m2,
the 52 cms edge parallel to the machine direction and to the
vergure wires at a distance of 4 cms.In the attachment # 8 of the Email
you can see that the oxhead (watermark # 3) was placed in the left upper
corner of the sheet and the name Van Gelder Zonen (watermark #
10) at the right bottom of the sheet, parallel to the Met
vriendelijke groeten,
In re: Lisa Duncan’s query of 05/04/2009 I too am
looking for more information about Van Gelder Zonen paper. I am a book conservator,
and I am examining a book printed on Van Gelder Zonen paper, which has the
same watermarks shown in Ms. Duncan’s photos. The book is printed on
folios measuring 39.8 x This
book is peculiar because it has been printed and bound ‘wrong grain,’ that
is, with the grain running perpendicular to the spine. Ms. Duncan’s
sample appears to be printed in the same fashion. I wonder if this was
a paper intended and designed to be printed and bound as quartos, which my
book’s designer, and apparently Ansel Adams too, ignored and chose to use as
folios. The book
I have was produced in Any
information about this paper, and its apparent international popularity at
the time, would be greatly appreciated. Many
thanks, Anne Marigza Conservator, Books and Documents
(Answer
received 14/04/2010) |
Please send us your
questions & answers and further information - more than one answer is most
welcome! - for inclusion in this table. Please refer to the question and it's
date. If you want to remain anonymous, please indicate so
visit our watermark Q&A archive pages
